Episode #5 – Kyle Roof eCommerce SEO Interview – podcast

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  • In this episode, we do an in-depth interview with Kyle Roof, the head of High Voltage SEO. Kyle shares some of his best e-commerce SEO tips with us so that we can best prioritize how we take action on our high ticket Dropshipping eCommerce stores.
  • Kyle is one of my favorite SEOs because he does single variable testing. That is, trying out different things in test environments to get a deeper understanding of how search engines work.

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Introduction: You’re listening to the build assets online podcast. Get ready to learn proven strategies on how you can build an online business portfolio from the ground up from two guys who actually do it. Now let’s get to the show.

Joe: Hi everyone, it’s Joe Brusca and Mike with buildassetsonline.com and today we’re really, really happy to have a special guests with us. Kyle Ruff. For those of you that don’t know, Kyle is a full time SEO. He owns his own agency called high voltage SEO. I think that was a play on the ACDC song. Is that right?

Kyle: No. Are you familiar with a band electric six by chance?

Joe: No, no, no.

Kyle: Nobody is. It’s actually based off of them, but it worked out well because my business partner is Australian and he loves ACDC. So when I suggested it and he’s like, Oh, like the ACDC song. And I was like, sure. And then so we both got what we wanted.

Joe: Oh cool. Yes. I guess it worked out then. Yeah. He also I know Kyle’s focus, I’ll let him introduce himself in a second is he focuses very highly on technical SEO. Specifically on page. He’s got a tool called a page optimizer pro that can do a lot of the heavy lifting for you if that’s what you’re trying to achieve. So yeah, I’ll let Kyle do a little bit of short introduction for anything I haven’t covered and then we’re going to get straight into the bulk of the interview where we’re going to be talking about e-commerce SEO.

Kyle: Yeah, that’s about it. Yeah. So we’ve got for high voltage, we have the office in Phoenix, we have an office in Berlin and we have an office in Melbourne and we handle all forms of SEO from local to national to international e-com to everything in between. I’m at the Phoenix office. Our main office is actually Berlin. That’s where most of our people are working out. The other thing that I do is internet marketing gold and if anybody wants to get ahold of me, I’m there and it’s free to sign up. And it’s a community that we’re putting together as kind of a place to find answers. This YouTube channel will be fed into the videos probably by the end of this week. So

Joe: Yeah. Fantastic. Yeah, I logged into the platform. It’s really cool. There’s like chat rooms and lots of cool information. Actually. I mean I’ve been using the internet a long time and I haven’t seen, it reminded me of like kind of like the old days with the chat rooms and it was kind of nostalgic for me to log on because I think things were actually like better back then from like a user standpoint.

Kyle: And we’re trying not to overthink it. We’re trying to get a place where you can just get answers and we realize that some of our stuff isn’t quite what we wanted to be. And so of course as all projects go, we’re going to add in a few features to kind of, again, so the port, the place where someone can actually just log in and see like I have a question about this and talk to some people. Then that actually might be able to help them out. Cool. Cool. Cool, cool.

Joe: All right, fantastic. Let’s get to the bulk of the interview. So like I said, we’re going to be talking about e-commerce SEO tactics and the stuff that we teach, Kyle, we’re focused on building online businesses. And from our point of view, creating a high ticket drop shipping business is one of the best ways to start building a portfolio. And it’s because you can get cash flow quickly through means of paid advertising. So using Google ads is a fantastic way to, if you’re going from zero, you know, $0, no online business, you can turn it into like a legitimate thing very, very quickly. But Google ads are you know, only piece of the puzzle, I mean you can build a fantastic business just off ads and we have, but lately we’ve been moving more towards SEOs simply because you know, to scale to where the big players are, I think it’s a must. And when I say big players, I’m talking like Wayfair home, like all the huge, huge ecommerce sites. So the first question I want to ask you, Kyle is say you know you’re a business similar to how I just described, you’re doing great with paid advertising, you’re selling some really good brands online. How do you start your e-commerce SEO journey?

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Kyle: Sure. Starting with ad-words is something that I advocate even for people that aren’t in e-comm or aren’t doing drop shipping and the reason is that you can get data quickly about the keywords that convert. So when you’re running ads you can narrow down the number of keywords to find the ones that actually convert that actually bring ROI and that becomes a very short list of keywords for you to begin to optimize. If you’ve run a campaign for a while, you probably have a great feel of what those keywords are because you’ve got the actual data. If you’re also running a campaign and you’re running campaigns, you can get actual search volume and you do that by dividing your impressions by your impression share and then you don’t have to rely on any third party tools or even Google’s tools to find out how much volume, how much traffic there is for particular keywords. And you can take that information and then again then filter down a little bit more. Additionally, you get the opportunity to test headlines and descriptors and those turn into your Meta titles and Meta descriptions. A big part of SEO is getting people to click. It’s just the same as an ad words. And so you can instantly start to test the copy that you want to put onto the page. So you can find out, you can get your top performing keywords and those become your first pages. You can test your copy and you can find out actual search volume to help you make really informed decisions.

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Joe: Yeah, yeah, that sounds about right. As far as what you mentioned on the keyword volume thing. That’s something that really resonates with me because I mean I’ve done this and I kind of, the proof is in the pudding that there’s, I think that if Google auto completes it, then it’s a keyword. And I’ve had stuff that has no search volume and [inaudible 05:09] and all the keyword tools that, you know, get 10 20 hits a day. And when you find those keywords, it’s fantastic.

Kyle: Well, if you can look at, you know, you scroll down to the bottom of the surface and you see like the related searches, it’s impossible for that to show up if it hasn’t actually been searched. But then you take those and you put them into any tool you like or into a recliner and they’ll come back with zeroes. And that’s, that’s an actual impossibility. And one thing to think about too is a lot of the keyword data that people use, it’s a lot of it comes from keyword planner and then a couple of other sources. But keyword planner in particular has, it’s in their best interest to sell inventory. And so it’s in their interest to send you or push you towards keywords where they know a lot of people are searching and where they have inventory, where a lot of people aren’t buying those keywords as well. So there’s a bit of a bias in the data that you get where Google will want to push you into something that where they can sell more of rather than giving you any actual data. It’s really interesting. The other thing you have to think about too, once you have that data, you get location specific data. What I mean by that is you can actually tell what the search volume is for just like say Phoenix or you can actually, if you’re running an hour’s campaign that’s like by zip code, you can find out the search volume for a zip code, which is massively valuable information. If you need to figure out exactly how many people from a certain area, like your demographic lives here and you need to figure out what the search volume is for that demographic, you can do that and you can do that through ad-words.

Kyle: That’s a pretty interesting, you said and kind of actually prompted me towards my next question, and this is something I just thought of just now. If you were running a national business, like in our case we’re doing high ticket drop shipping and you saw that people were searching, would you consider maybe optimizing around local keywords if that was something that seemed viable for your business? Even if you’re a national business?

Kyle: For sure. Because you might find that while you know your competition in level is X nationwide, everybody in Orlando is dropping the ball and people from Orlando buy your product or like your product. So in that situation, why not, you know, spend your money where you’re going to get sales and where the competition is not.

Joe: Interesting. So as, I mean, as long as you could ship it to Orlando in this case, then I guess it’s worth having a page about.

Kyle: Well, and the thing to do as you can see that within AdWords where people are searching from, you know, you can see locations and stuff like that. You get location data afterwards.

Joe: I see. And then hypothetically if someone in Orlando searched for, say we use the example of kitchen islands, like they wanted to buy kitchen islands online and you had a page about that with the right keywords you could potentially rank for that even if you’re a national site.

Kyle: That’s right. Oh yeah.

Joe: Interesting stuff.

Kyle: Or like you could target major metropolitan areas, you know, Phoenix as the fifth largest city in the U S you could just target the cities themselves and not worry about everything in between. Cool. Or vice versa.

Joe: Interesting. Very cool. That’s something we might have to start implementing. So you’ve analyzed your ad-words data, you’ve found your keywords. What about the onsite stuff? Like what’s the first thing that someone should do? I know you guys had a, a great episode, I think it was a SEO fight club where you talk about like trust signals. So is that, where do you start with all that? Do you start with site structure or do you start, what do you think?

Kyle: Well, so what I’m going to start with are my primary keywords. So I apologize if you can hear that rain. By the way. If that’s not coming through, that’s great, but it is poor. I know. It all starts with your keywords. It starts with your primary, you identified those five and you’re like, I don’t think you need to get overwhelmed by building out a 400 page store. You’ve got five keywords, you know, or bringing in ROI. Let’s focus on optimizing code. And so that’s what I would do. I would start with those primaries. I find my secondary keywords, which are the cluster that those are the other terms are going to win based on that primary. And then I worked on finding my supporting keywords. Those are the ones easily answered questions are related to that topic or that concept, that keyword about. And then I’d start mapping out my strategy. Don’t get overwhelmed with got 9,000 products. I need 9,000 pages, probably five and of those are really great ways. That money, those the ones that I’ve focused on first, don’t get caught into huge detail. Just go after what you know from the data that you have.

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Joe: Cool, cool. So, yeah, I apologize if the rain does seem to be messing with our audio quality a little bit, but so I apologize guys. But you know as long as the information there, from my point of view it’s all good. So you found those keywords right now we’re going back to the next step. So say you do have a large store, which when you’re building a store with paid advertising, it’s something that could happen. And I’m sure you know you have clients that have so many pages on their eCommerce store that they just made, you know with no intention or they’d understand the intention. So you do just really focus on do you do any, you know, site structure reorganization or are you just really focus on those pages? Don’t worry about anything else.

Kyle: What would you want to do? You want to see what kind of page Google is rewarding for that keyword. You got that type of page on your site. So when you take one to the you like the best, like this is bringing us the most money. You do a search board or what kind of pages show up on page one? Are they category pages? Are they individual product pages? Are they long form blog posts? You know, a lot of people don’t realize is that Google doesn’t like product pages a lot, but what you’ll often see is like the 10 best bylaws of blah. So really instead of actually doing any kind of optimization towards a category page or a product, a single product page, you should be thinking about putting up a blog post about that thing and do a Roundup and it turns out your product is going to be the best one, so you need to see what’s there first and then decide what type of agency.

Joe: Right, right, right. I have noticed that for one of the stores that we’re heavily trying to optimize right now, and I don’t know if I regret this decision or I’m going to love that decision later on, is we actually split it up into a blog and the store. And.

Kyle: Two separate sites?

Joe: Yes. Actually, Ted, I’m one of those [inaudible] by this method.

Kyle: Yes. I like this a bit. Yeah, it gives you two opportunities to rank, but I think where you’re going is that it’s a lot of work.

Joe: Yeah. I might’ve bitten off more than I could chew and I’m a bit of, we’re going to circle back to this later. But when you do that strategy, I mean for me personally, maybe because I don’t have the experience with it. Like I’m afraid of doing stuff like using the wrong anchor text and like just kind of messing it up in a way where Google is going to penalize me inadvertently or something. But I don’t know if I’m overthinking that or what swept that.

Kyle: I wouldn’t worry about that. Yeah.

Joe: And so if you do take that approach, what about creating like say you create the best X page on both sites.

Kyle: Why not?

Joe: I don’t know.

Kyle: If you’ve seen the, Google’s really, really liking like a long form Roundup or like those how to use kind of articles or things of that nature. Why not do too?

Joe: I don’t know. I just not say it seems it seems a little dirty. It seems a little dirty, huh? All right.

Kyle: The big guys do this all the time, like you know when you like your Wayfair example, I can’t remember, Wayfair owns like three companies and when you do searches for stuff in the furniture space, two or three of those are going to be all awakened. Oh cool.

Joe: I’ll definitely investigate that. So now I want to talk a little bit about duplicate content or like content that’s not unique. And so in the case of how we build out our sites and how our students build out our sites, we recommend from the get go and now we’re going to be talking about product pages here simply because that’s really where this would occur. So when we launch sites, we’d like to go with just the descriptions that the manufacturer or the brand gives you because we want to get the ad words up. We don’t want to spend time, you know, doing that kind of stuff. So I’ve personally found that, I don’t know if it matters. What’s your take on that? Should you have unique content on all your product pages?

Kyle: I would first circle back to is this something that I think will rank? And then I’m going to start to spend some time on it. If it doesn’t look likely to rank or it’s really not a big money maker for me, I’m not going to worry about it at all. So I’ve only worried about it if like I think we should optimize this product phase cause it looks like this product can actually show them on its own right. That situation then I would put a little effort into it. But the threshold to get past Google’s duplicate content filter is right around 51% unique. So that’s not a high bar of putting just an additional amount of content cause what are most descriptions from the manufacturer? Like 200 words-ish. So just add another 200 words and you’re there. You know, pretty much that’s all it comes down to. So it’s a very low bar to get past the duplicate content filter.

Joe: Is that a filter that you would pass just by the very nature of like the static elements on your store?

Kyle: You probably could. Yeah, there’s a good chance. Yeah, but you can do that search, you know like so search for the product and you know when you scroll to the bottom and Google will say we filtered out a 140 results because we think they’re duplicate. See if you get filtered and if you’re not getting filtered by that, then you don’t have any duplicate content issues.

Joe: Okay. So if you’re not in that filter, then you have a chance to rank at that point.

Kyle: Yes then you don’t have to worry about duplicate content or doing anything to address that.

Joe: Okay, fantastic. Cool.

Mike: So Hey Mike I just wanted to chime in. I know the listeners can’t see me but I am here. But so Kyle, along the lines of this duplicate content thing, is that Google filter the only way to check or is there some sort of page that you can use or tool that you can use to check side-by-side if you’re going to be hitting that duplicate content issue?

Kyle: We can use Copyscape or something like that to see how duplicate your content is. And I can tell you the bar is about 51% unique, but the using Google is the best way to do it because it’ll actually tell you, you know, is Google saying this as people get content, they don’t hide it. They tell you exactly.

Mike: Okay. So if something is considered by Google to be duplicate content, they will just completely not rank it for anything?

Kyle: They filtered out by the little blue line that says we filled it out the results and you can actually click the blue line and then see that you’re actually there. So let’s say for example, you do the search, we’re not there. There’s the duplicate guide. You open it, every does it, and you search. Again, you’re just not ranking. But it’s not because of duplicate content. But that would be for any keyword that it would possibly show up for periods. Right? Yeah. I mean you checked that keyword by keyword or page by page is a better to look at it probably. Yeah.

Joe: Got it. Cool. Cool. So yeah, so now at this point, I’m kind of just trying to draw the timeline for the listeners here. So we’ve found the keywords that we like, we’ve narrowed down that Google is going to rank those pages or like that type of page. You know, we’re not really too worried about duplicate content as say you were trying to rank a product page. We’re just trying to make sure that it doesn’t get hit by that filter. So the next thing is, well I was going to mention links, but since you’re kind of the on-page guy, let’s talk about on page a little bit at that point. So you know, we’ve, what should we do? Should we, I mean what’s the first step and when we identified the keyword, we found the type of page, what do we do with the on page?

Kyle: In terms of linking? One thing I think you need to understand is that if you are trying to get a link from someone to a place where you’re selling a product, they’re going to tell you to pound sand. Nobody wants to link to a product page. And if you have links coming into a product page, it’s quite, obviously you bought them. So whatever your feelings are about that, I would take that into consideration. But you’re not fooling anyone. No one’s like, you know what, I would really love to link to this guy who was drop shipping this product. That’s, that’s, that isn’t going to happen. That isn’t going to happen. So if you have a lot of lung showing up to those pages, everyone knows what you did, but people are very happy to link to pages that provide information about something that provided good information about the product or how they use the product or different considerations about the product. Those are the kind of things that I would build out. So if I’m going to link to a specific page and I’m like, okay, this is our page that has the ability to rank, we like it a lot. We’ve optimized it as we want to. The next thing is I’m going to find supporting keywords. I’m going to write posts, for lack of a better word. There can be pages too that answer questions that come from like people also ask like that section of Google, those are going to become posts that I’m going to use and I’m going to link from those to my target page. The reason that I do that is that I’m going to use those for like link building later. So when I do outreach or for something that’s going to be into one of those pages and if you’ve got your internal links set up so that that page is linking to your target page, you’re going to pass that juice through. And this what you can do any link building strategy that you like. You know you want to do video on beds, that’s great. So that’s just one post. It’s got a video in bed and you’re linking to it. Do you want to do Google stacks? Lovely. You want to do guest post outreach, that’s great. And it all goes into these pages that you build out that just have good content on them. You know the good content from Google. But did they answer questions is what I mean?

Joe: Right, right. So let me ask you something about what you just said. So if you Google stacks, as far as I understand them are, you’re kind of using like Google docs and like different Google properties and stacking them together to link to your site. If you’re doing that, what’s the downside of linking directly to your product page? Just because if you’re doing that, I mean it’s clear that you’re linking for a.

Kyle: Sure. But link penalties are page by page. So if you decide like, I think this link is harming me and you pointed to your target page, what are you going to do? Burn down your target page? But if you linked to a silo page, a supporting page, you can burn down that supporting page and you didn’t just kill your product.

Joe: I see. So we’re talking like the algorithmic penalties now.

Kyle: Sure. It is a way to limit your risk.

Joe: Gotcha. Gotcha. Even if it’s on the same domain at, you know, you’re okay.

Kyle: Yep.

Joe: Interesting. Okay. So, well before we get, I asked the next question about the off pay. Well, I think you kind of answered my question about the off-page stuff. Okay. What about the on-page stuff for e-commerce, like say you are trying to rank a category page or a collection page or a product page, do you still do the same type of on page optimization like you would do if you were doing like a blog post or like if you were trying to rank for like plumber in San Diego or something?

Kyle: Yeah, absolutely. Because if you think that the category page is the one that’s going to rank, that means you’re going up against other category pages. So you can get the metrics that Google is rewarding for and from those pages and emulate that where people, where it’s you know, a round egg in a square hole is when people are trying to do the category page and they’re going up against blog posts or articles, you know, roundups that’s when you have problems. But if the page you’ve decided like, okay, I think this page can rank it is that decision should be because those other pages exist. And then you can use measurement tools to count and figure out what you’re on patient base.

Joe: Right, right. So once you get that correct, is that when you move to the off page and if so, you know, you’re just essentially counting your competitors’ links and trying to replicate slash beat that.

Kyle: That’s right. It’s really the same process with on-page, you know, on pages counting signals and things that are within certain signal areas with off-page, the, I think the right way to do it is how many domains do you need? I’m really not very concerned about backlink totals, but domains, right? How many linking domains are coming in? And then kind of get in the field of what those are and then going after those, right. Is the way to do it? And then when you talk about like anchor text or, you know, what should we be linking? Should these be branded or unbranded? Again, it’s pretty easy to see what your competitors have done. They’ll set the standard for you and if you follow that, then you’re not going to get into any trouble. They didn’t get in trouble.

Joe: Yeah. Yeah. So I wanted to ask you about that. Like in terms of, you said people normally don’t link to product pages, but I know from experience in some niches you have, I mean people will have a lot of links to product pages, whether they be, you know, forum links or just people talking about the specific products or like in a Roundup posts. So if your competitors have linked to their product pages, is it really that unusual or something that you shouldn’t do?

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Kyle: Well, I think everybody knows that it’s not natural, but if you are fine with that, like if you’re okay with that risk, then go for it.

Joe: Right, right, right.

Kyle: I mean it is risk tolerance, right? Is all that comes down to if you’re like, well they’re doing it so I’m going to roll with it. Even though you know, it’s probably not the best idea. But that’s your decision.

Joe: Right. I gotcha. So let’s say you do take on that high risk, right? And you have a product page and you know there’s product pages ranking that you want to beat, but it’s a bestseller. You really want to get in there, get to position one. And so you decided to take a little bit more of an aggressive approach. Because I mean, realistically to me when I think about a product page on an eCommerce store, I don’t view it as a huge problem to burn that page because I could just put up another page that sells the product. So what are your thoughts on that? If you think about it? Is it really, is there something I’m missing there that makes it high risk? I mean, you know, when you’re just, wherever your rank started at and you start all over again.

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Joe: I’m assuming you started at zero like you started,

Kyle: Then you have to think about like, okay, well that took six months to get here. Yeah, you’re right. Burning it down and putting it back up as an Abraham. But I hope you have another six months now that I think that’s, I think that’s the only thing I would worry about is the time factor.

Joe: Gotcha. Gotcha. Yeah. Yeah. So like you said, it is kind of like a risk assessment here at where you’re at, where you want to be in for sure and all that stuff. Okay. And some people how serious a high levels of tolerance. So you know, I’ll link directly to go for it. Yeah, you’re right where you said, I’ve seen an of it works for sure. But I mean that’s a decision you have to make.

Mike: If I can chime in real quick, the SEO, if you, even if you get a sort of link penalty to your product page that hypothetically wouldn’t affect any paid advertising you’re doing, right. So you don’t, assuming you have a profitable paid traffic campaign and already going, you’re not really taking a huge risk in that field by trying to improve your SEO rankings if they’re already non-existent for that product.

Kyle: That’s right. Google will always take your money, even if the page is tantalized.

Joe: Yeah. You know, you’ve mentioned a little bit about kind of the things that Google will do, like we talked about with the keyword volume there. In a lot of ways they’re doing things to drive their ad-words revenue. Have you found or have any suspicion that if you have a large AdWords account or a site has a large ad words account that it gives you any sort of like trust or any sort of additional benefit?

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Kyle: Not really. I think it does give you traffic and so if you like those signals, I think that can be beneficial. But I’ve never seen like we’re paying money here and Google is giving us a booster, being kinder to the site, I don’t know that that’s a thing.

Joe: Right, right, right. Okay. So we’ve talked about risk tolerance and stuff like that, but I do want to touch on one thing which was anchors and link velocity. When you’re working on your client’s sites, is that something you pay attention to or you try and be conservative or again, it depends on their risk tolerance?

Kyle: Well, when you do your on page, Right, and then you’ve got your internal linking set up that does the majority of your heavy lifting and I think it does reduce the amount of links that you need to do. But if you ever wanted to look at like what’s a healthy velocity, I’m using a tool like eight reps. You can see that, but in your top five or 10 competitors and look at their, how many domains they acquired, back linking domains they acquired over the last year and you’ll find it. It’s probably pretty close. We’re pretty similar and then you can see what normal looking that’s they’re doing normally, but what a link velocity looks like and then you can space it out from there and then I would emulate just what they’ve been doing.

Joe: Gotcha, gotcha. Okay, cool. I think, yeah, that about wraps it up for my questions that I have written down. Mike, is there anything else you want to add here?

Mike: I mean, I think this has been a very informative conversation. I think for new people, you know, I’m not the one who handles the SEO. Joe is and so For me, I understand what you guys are talking about at a conceptual level just because I work with Joe, but so for a beginner, you know who has an eCommerce site, they’re doing drop shipping, they’re running paid traffic, what would you say would be like the top three things that they can go out and do?

Kyle: For SEO? Yes, so as we talked about the beginning, finding those keywords because it all starts with keywords and finding those ones that are bringing the most ROI. I think that that has to be step one and instead of two, as we discussed as figuring out what kind of page they need to have ranking for that. I think a lot of people just assume it’s their product and it might be the product, but it might be other things. So like those are the first two huge things is identify those keywords and identify the page type. After that, then it comes down to how you like to do your SEO in terms of how you make those decisions. You know, are you just going to try to write good content or you going to try to do a little more scientifically or mathematically, then that’s up to you at that point. And then, so maybe the third thing would be making a decision on how you’re going to create that page or how are you going to modify a page that you have on your side.

Mike: So if I can try and summarize that so they can, you know, obviously there’ll be running paid traffic already. So they’ll have keywords that are showing conversions inside of their AdWords account. And then when they search those on Google, they can see the pages that are already ranking and they can compare their product page to that. And so whether it’s other product pages ranking or it’s articles or it’s a collection page. From there, you can make a decision on what you should do. So if it’s other product pages ranking, then you need to go and optimize your product page. If it’s a collection page, you need to go and make a collection page that will link to that good selling product. Or if it’s some sort of informational pieces of content, then you would make, I forget what you called it, booster posts or something around that product that’s informational, that links to the product and then from there you can try and rank that.

Kyle: Because it’s something you need to understand is that you might continue to run ad traffic to that one product page, but something else is what’s actually ranking for that product. And Google a different page on your site is the one that’s actually renting organically. Then you just want to make sure that there’s some way to convert on that page. Cool. Yeah, for sure.

Joe: So actually before we sign off, Kyle, I did want to ask you one more question because this is something that you mentioned and I think something that it sounds a little bit overwhelming and I’ve got to be honest personally, I don’t really understand it that much, but the Google doc, I understand what it is that the document stacking, does that really work? It seems and like if so to what level c.

Kyle: And you scale that up? So, I mean you can pay services like semantic mastery does a really great job with it. I think they run around 300 bucks a pop for one. But you can do it as big or as locally like a thing. But the idea is very simple. It’s just, and you can stack any property, you can stack any web 2.0. The idea is it stack just means two things linking together and then then the one thing that’s closest to your site links to, and that’s usually the name of the stack. So you could have a whole bunch of things linking into a Google doc and then the Google doc links to your site. That’s a you know, Google stack because the last document in the chain is cool.

Joe: What’s typically linking into these stacks? Is it like PBNs or like other documents or are they just also on there?

Kyle: Any or all thing you want to do so like some people do them with other documents so they’ll link a sheet and a drawing and a slides or something to a Google doc and that Google doc links in. Some people are firing web 2.0 is at them. Some people are doing, if this, then that rings these PBNs, you name it saved GSA. That’s what people do. All sorts of crazy things.

Joe: And you can hire people to build them. But the theory behind it is that Google is not going to penalize its own domain.

Kyle: Right. The theory is that if you’ve got the last thing that’s pointing in, so it could be even like a Tumblr or wordpress.com or issue or something like that. The idea is that those are so large that they absorb any kind of link penalty so that any juice that’s passed through its filter is really the content. Right.

Joe: So I, but I also guessed the advantage is that if, well you could turn it off at any point. You can just remove the link from the end document.

Kyle: Yeah. You need to make sure that you Control that. Okay. That would be it. That would be very important. But yeah, at the end of the day, like if you just turn off that one link, you know the last link, then it’s no longer harming your site if you felt it was harming you.

Joe: Right. How would you even know if it was harming you?

Kyle: Your rank starts to drop would be probably indication number one, right? Yes. But not just, I’m like Oh my God it dropped. Because that’s probably a transitional rank but it like dropped and it’s steadily declining is a whole other thing.

Joe: Gotcha. Gotcha. Alright, cool. So we’ll wrap it up there folks. Kyle, do you want to you know, get people where they can find you? Anything like that?

Kyle: Yeah, just internetmarketing.gold. So gold is the TLD. Internetmarketing.gold. I’m there. It’s free to log in and join up and you can ping me. You can get a hold of Ted Cubeit us, you can get hold of a lot of other people and has a great community. Like people that know what they’re doing when it comes to SEO and that sort of thing. And so pop on over.

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Joe: Alright, fantastic. Thank you so much, Kyle,

Mike: And thanks for listening everyone.

Joe: Thank you, Kyle.

Kyle: Alright, thanks for having me. Bye.

Joe: Thanks for listening to the build assets online podcast. Don’t forget to visit buildassetsonline.com/playbook where we give you our free blueprint to building $1 million in online assets from home, even if you have no prior experience.

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